Orchestras have to completely rethink how to engage with the community, Fogel told delegates, and that means tackling the white bias: “Don’t sit in your office with your mostly all-white staff and think up programs and go into the community and say ‘Boy, have we got a good program for you, here it is.’ Go into the community and actually ask the question: ‘If you had a relationship with the orchestra, what might it be like, what might you want?’ ”